Subject: Evil and Belief
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 00:14:18 -0400
From: Alex Machina
To: Birds Of A Feather
Dear Ruminators:
Imagine this planet devoid of any humanoid life.
The planet exists. It is the same as today. The animals still live. The plants live. The remnants of our technology lies unused and decaying.
Perhaps other lifeforms, equal to the intelligence of Earth humanoids (or nearly so) exists on other planets. Perhaps not. We don't know. In any case, we are not here to ponder the question.
Where is the evil under these circumstances? Does it still exist? Who or what decides what event or effect is evil?
If evil exists, then what is it? It certainly is not like matter. Is it then a force, like gravity? Why then does it appear not to be there unless I judge an event?
I claim that evil exists only because we exist and we judge it to exist; we declare its existence. There is no such intrinsic event or effect or corporeal entity that we can call evil, apart from what one or more of us (sentient, conscious) creatures decides. Without a sentient creature judging, there is no such thing as evil.
But given that sentient creatures such as us exist, the existence of evil is still problematic.
Consider McVeigh's bombing in Oklahoma City.
Consider the US/NATO bombing of Yugoslavia.
Consider the bombing of US embassies in Yemen and elsewhere.
How is one to judge which of these events is evil? Why isn't there universal agreement? The end result of each of the above actions is pretty much the same. Why then are they judged differently by different people?
Notice that the conclusions I make regarding each of those events pretty much boils down to how I view the world, to how my life history unfolded, to what I deem to be justice and injustice. In the same way, different individuals, different cultures, assess each of the above events based on their view of the world, on their history, on their perception of the relative degree of justice and injustice they feel subject to.
I am claiming that it is time to let go of the concept of evil. It exists only in our minds, and then only because we judge a particular event from our point of view (I know, that's the only point of view we can judge it from). I will say here that I agree with the bumper sticker (not seen much anymore) that encourages justice if one's goal is peace. My point is that "evil" happens because one or more of us has, after repeated attempts to coexist with others in a just environment, finds that we are powerless to influence or ameliorate conditions that are unjust, and in an attempt to rectify the (perceived) injustice, take actions that those who are then affected by that action, then judge to be evil.
Now for belief.
A belief is simply a preference. It says nothing about how the world or universe really is (assuming it really is any way at all). Imagine, again, a universe without any humanoids. What good is a belief? Does such a concept (belief) even exist under those circumstances?
In a recent Newsweek edition, a young African woman is photographed preparing for ritual circumcision. There is a picture of her, lying on her back, on a blanket in the dirt, legs bent at the knees and open, surrounded by family and villagers. An old man with a razor blade is about to cut her clitoris.
Belief is a powerful thing. It is good to remember that the likelihood of a particular belief being absurd is fairly high. What is the alternative to belief? Knowledge. Knowledge in the sense of that physics provides knowledge; in the sense that mathematics provides knowledge. Of course, you are free to believe any damn thing you like. You can even choose to believe in evil; but recognize that it is a belief, not knowledge; and recognize that what you consider evil is someone's belief.
There is a lot of spiritual mumbo-jumbo loose in the world. Rejection of this mumbo-jumbo is not a bad thing. Seeing the world as it is, noticing that things are as they are because we have collectively made them so, is a freeing experience. Things are not True because The Priest said so, or because The President said so, or because The Institution said so. They simply have the authority, given to them by our acquiescence, to declare what Truth is.
So believe what you want. But next time you get into an airplane, it might be better if you just knew why it flies (or you can just trust the pilot.... :). Some candidates for mumbo-jumbo: numerology, astrology, prayer, tarot cards.
I'm sure we can all come up with our own lists. Once the lists are all combined, perhaps we will find that there is nothing to believe in. This is It.
Have a nice day. :) Really! :)
Subject: Re: Evil and Belief
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:18:28 -0400
From: [Nan Johnson]
To: Birds Of A Feather
Alex, Quite a juicy subject for a Sunday morning. I agree that evil exists only in the human mind. Back to basic existentialism: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? Scientifically, we know that the tree will generate air pressure waves as it falls. But if there is no human timpani, or eardrum, to receive the air pressure waves and interpret them as sound, is there sound? One might say the birds or deer in the forest react to the falling of the tree. Do they interpret air pressure waves as sound, or in some other way? Perhaps it is just the movement of air that signals their instinctive startle response? (Okay, I believe that animals also have eardrums. But is it the vibration of the eardrum or the synaptic processing of vibratory patterns that creates sound, as we know it ?)
I believe that concepts of evil arise from basic human needs: safety, food, affiliation, etc. When something interferes with getting those needs met, we tend to label it "evil." "Evil" can be almost anything that threatens our survival--another person, an earthquake, a tornado; or something that threatens our emotional equilibrium--"that woman was evil incarnate as she drew the eye of every man in the room." A woman whose sexuality tempts a man to violate his marriage vows is often considered evil or "naughty." Treasures uncovered elicit evil responses from every person who desires them and plots to gain them for him/herself.
Evil is projection and reflection. It is the part of ourselves we wish to disown. (I need this gold to buy medicine for my children, your only desire is to accumulate more wealth.) It is the agony we experience when we realize our striving towards a goal has disadvantaged another that we care for or produced unexpected suffering that we did not anticipate or intend.
Intention is usually cited as a qualifier for the appellation of "evil." But "intention" is an entirely subjective matter. It changes as we acquire new information. It changes as we mature and integrate new understandings of the human condition. Is a secret revealed intentionally (consciously) or by some unconscious process that is defending an unclaimed wound? Does one have to be aware of the intentionality of one's behavior for it to qualify as "evil." Must one have some minimal intellectual ability to perform acts of "evil." Does a tornado have intellect?
The evil that has most interested me of late is the property based legal system that we call our democracy. Many UU's support the concept of social justice. How do we codify the right to a "decent" life? It feels "evil" to me when there are children starving in our cities, not receiving the medical care they need, or adequate food and shelter. Do we have a responsibility to every member of the human community, to assist them in meeting their basic needs? If we keep all 5 or 6 billion human beings fed, what evil will finish our overpopulated planet? Will it be an "evil" force of famine related to human produced climactic change? Will it be an "evi"l plague that is enabled by the overcrowding we have allowed?
In a strange place today. Hope you have a good one, Nan J
Alex Machina wrote: [Alex Machina, 25 Jul 1999 is quoted in full here.]
Subject: Re: Evil and Belief
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:54:09 EDT
From: [Marcia Helme]
To: [Birds Of A Feather]
Alex,
Great thoughts and food for more ruminating! Thanks.
I often have wondered, "What good does humanity do for this planet, other than for each other?" I could never come up with a good answer.
And I'll agree evil exists only because humans say it exists. It's a human-made concept. Would you say the say about love?
I'll admit that evil is not an entity. It's not measurable, like energy, gravitational pull, speed. Nor is there any universally agreed definition of evil; while there are universally agreed definitions for energy, gravitational pull, speed.
However, the lack of a universal definition does not mean that I don't have to think about it. On the contrary, I would say that the lack of a universal definition means I have a moral responsibility to think about it, to work out a set of guidelines for myself: behavior A is better (i.e., less evil) than behavior B because ________/
Do you have a criteria that you, Alex, use to decide whether behavior A is more ethical than behavior B.?
Peace,
Marcia
Subject: Re: Evil and Belief
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:13:21 EDT
From: Sandra S Stark
To: [Birds Of A Feather]
Alex,
I think evil exists only if an individual or group of individual fully understands that what they are about to do is wrong and continues to intentionally take away the dignity of another human being. That definition makes it very select.
The ritual circumcision is not an evil act (although unconsciousable to us) because the intent of doing evil is not there. It's part of the African culture.
I'm not even sure the boys doing the killing at Columbine High School were committing an evil act in the shootings of their fellow students ............ in their minds were they able to separate the video games they had been playing with reality.
Evil is a human concept. But then so is love and a multiple of other concepts that make humans unique. You can only try to minimize ignorance through education.
Sandy
Subject: More on evil
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:52:44 EDT
From: [Marcia Helme]
To: [Birds Of A Feather]
Dear Friends,
I've inadvertently deleted my incoming messages, so I can't remember who wrote about the teenagers in Middleton. But I'd like to respond to the thought expressed.
I want to think about this some more, because I'm not entirely comfortable with my answer. Anyway, here goes.
I need to distinguish between several types of evil.
1. Those who are trying to respect the inherent worth and dignity of every person, but who occasionally screw up. I think such people are not evil.
2. Those who aren't trying to respect others, because the idea has never been presented to them. Maybe the Middleton teenagers fall in that category.
But I have trouble saying it's NOT evil, because of the enormity of the results. Somehow, evil is in there. It may be that the evil stems from their parents, whose evil stems from their parents, and so on.
3. Those who claim they are trying to respect everyone's inherent worth and dignity but who really are not trying very hard, if at all. I call these the hypocrites. I tend to think such actions are evil.
4. Those who claim they are trying to respect everyone's inherent worth and dignity, and who think that's what they are doing, but who are engaging in a lot of denial. When the mistreatment of others is brought to their attention, they claim the victim/survivor is exaggerating. I see this in my work. Person A is beating up her/his partner, person B. Person B tells person C about it. C doesn't believe it, because A seems so nice. C has never seen A engage in the behavior B describes . C thinks, "It can't really be as bad as B says. And maybe B needs to look at her/his own behavior; perhaps B is provoking A."
C is using denial as a defense. As in any defense, there is always a good reason for it. C thinks, "If it's really happening as B says, then I'll have to do something about it, and right now I've got enough of my own stuff to deal with. Therefore, especially since I haven't SEEN it happen, it's more comfortable to think that it's not happening."
And A may be thinking, "B is exaggerating what I did; anyway, B deserved it."
The effect on B can be devastating. I think there is evil somewhere in this scenario, but I'm not sure where. Perhaps it is the attitude that is evil, i.e. "B deserved it." I believe nobody deserves to be beaten. Ever. Some people may need to be restrained, but that is a very different action.
Justice will be achieved only when those who are not injured feel as indignant as those who are." Plato. 400 BC.
Subject: Re: Evil and Belief
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:03:19 -0400
From: Alex Machina
To: Birds Of A Feather
MarciaSJA@aol.com wrote:
>
> Do you have a criteria that you, Alex, use to decide whether behavior A is
> more ethical than behavior B.?
>
As I thought about how to answer this question, it became clear to me that I do not have any particular formula for determining what my behavior should be relative to a given event.
I don't make decisions based on some well thought out moral criteria. I just make decisions based on how I see the situation at the time I need to make a decision. I'm not even sure I would call it a "decision". It's more like a choice: I do whatever seems appropriate to me at the time. Sometimes I screw up. Usually I can change my choice. Sometimes I can't.
So I guess that in this context, the question becomes, how do I choose "whatever seems appropriate ... at the time".
I think I'm a machine. I've learned stuff. Based on what I've learned, I react to given inputs based on prior experiences, modified by what I think I know, modified by the input of other sentient machines, modified by my analysis of potential outcome versus what I would prefer, and modified by how I feel at the time.
The most interesting part of the above paragraph for me, is what do I mean by "feel" and "prefer"? I think I can reasonably talk about the other stuff, but what does it mean to "feel" or "prefer"? Where does that come from? Does my ability to feel contradict my assertion that "I" am a machine (albeit a pretty sophisticated one, as machines go :) ); does my ability to "prefer" say something about "I" that I don't understand?
I know that how I feel is affected by SSRI's (Prozac, Zoloft, the good stuff, for those of you who don't know). I know that how I feel is affected by other's reactions to me. I know that how I feel is affected by my perception of how I anticipate "the future" to unfold.
But in the end, I pretty much always to return to "it doesn't matter".
I recently read an article about Neil Armstrong in The Washington Post Magazine. In it, a friend of N. A. is quoted: "You understand that you're a short-term phenomenon, like the mosquitoes that come in the spring and fall. You get a perspective on yourself. You're getting back to the fundamentals of the planet. Neil feels that way, because we've talked about it."
This was in reference to the meaning the friend thought Armstrong attached to the farm that Armstrong had bought. ['The farm seemed to be an important part of Armstrong's sense of balance'].
I'm pretty much like that mosquito. Fortunately, no one has yet decided to swat me. Maybe that is why I don't kill flies anymore... For the most part, if it bothers me enough, I will usually make the effort to coax it out the door; failing that, I will usually leave it alone, rarely resorting to killing the damn thing. (But that doesn't work with mosquitoes; a good swat seems to be the only thing they understand).
In conclusion: ethics? relative; morality? relative; meaning? self-created; death? inevitable; I? it's something, but I'm not sure what.
[It's interesting that I had to go back and correct the above sentence. When I first wrote it, I had inadvertently put a question mark behind "inevitable". Not that this means anything, but I just thought I'd mention it].
In my early teens, when I first began to think about what I wanted to "be", I used to imagine flying a jet. Sometimes I would imagine that jet exploding in mid-air; I figured then that that was probably the best way to "go". I fly now, but not jets. Statistically, that explosion will never happen. And yet, it still seems preferable to the usual way to go. Mosquitoes. Now, they know how to fly.
Subject: Re: Re: Evil and Belief
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:20:50 EDT
From: [Marcia Helme]
To: [Birds Of A Feather]
Alex,
Thanks for you thoughts. But you know something? I bet you do have a built in morality. You just aren't aware of it. For example, I have never heard you hurl insults at someone you don't like. To the best of my knowledge, you do not practice premeditated violence, even when you could get away with it.
If you saw one person beating up another, and you felt you could stop it at minimum rish to yourself (e.g., dial 911), would you do it, or would you say, "No, I prefer not to do that"? I think you're on to something when you talk about your reaction to words such as "feel" and "prefer."
Somehow, Alex, you say you see yourself as an unfeeling machine. I don't see you that way. I think you're selling yourself short, and I'm not going to let you do that without calling you on it.
Love,
Marcia Helme